Do We Need Adam? Surprisingly Strong and Sparse Reinforcement Learning with SGD in LLMs
Sagnik Mukherjee, Lifan Yuan, Pavan Jayasinha, Dilek Hakkani-Tür, Hao Peng
摘要
Reinforcement learning (RL), particularly RL from verifiable reward (RLVR), has become a crucial phase of training large language models (LLMs) and a key focus of current scaling efforts. However, optimization practices in RL largely follow those of next-token-prediction stages (e.g., pretraining and supervised fine-tuning), despite the fundamental differences between RL and these stages emphasized by recent work. One such practice is the use of the AdamW optimizer, which is widely adopted for training large-scale transformers despite its high memory overhead. Our analysis shows that both momentum and adaptive learning rate of AdamW are less influential in RL than in SFT, leading us to hypothesize that RL benefits less from Adam's perparameter adaptive learning rates and momentum. Confirming our hypothesis, our experiments demonstrate that the substantially more memoryefficient SGD, which is known to perform poorly in supervised learning of large-scale transformers, matches or even outperforms AdamW in RL for LLMs. Remarkably, full fine-tuning with SGD updates fewer than 0.02% of model parameters without any sparsity-promoting regularization, more than 1,000× fewer than AdamW. Our analysis offers potential reasons for this update sparsity. Our findings provide fresh insights into the optimization dynamics of RL in LLMs and demonstrate that RL can be substantially more parameterefficient than previously recognized. 1
问问这篇 Paper
智能体会读完全文。
Lune 把这篇 Paper 索引到了每一个公式,引用它的顶会 Paper 也一样。你提问,回答直接引用原文。
它引用的顶会 Paper13
- Let's Verify Step by StepHunter Lightman, Vineet Kosaraju, Yuri Burda, Harrison Edwards 等ICLR 2024 · 被引用 3,045 次
- DAPO: An Open-Source LLM Reinforcement Learning System at ScaleQiying Yu, Zheng Zhang, Ruofei Zhu, Yufeng Yuan 等NeurIPS 2025 · 被引用 2,828 次
- The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Entropy Minimization in LLM ReasoningShivam Agarwal, Zimin Zhang, Lifan Yuan, Jiawei Han 等NeurIPS 2025 · 被引用 185 次
- RL's Razor: Why Online Reinforcement Learning Forgets LessIdan Shenfeld, Jyothish Pari, Pulkit AgrawalICLR 2026 · 被引用 176 次
- Why Transformers Need Adam: A Hessian PerspectiveYushun Zhang, Congliang Chen, Tian Ding, Ziniu Li 等NeurIPS 2024 · 被引用 149 次
相关 Paper
- AdamS: Momentum Itself Can Be A Normalizer for LLM Pretraining and Post-trainingHuishuai Zhang, Bohan Wang, Luoxin ChenEMNLP 2025 · 被引用 1 次
- Taming LLMs with Gradient GroupingSiyuan Li, Juanxi Tian, Zedong Wang, Xin Jin 等ACL 2025 · 被引用 1 次
- Theoretical Perspectives on Data Quality and Synergistic Effects in Pre- and Post-Training Reasoning ModelsAdel Javanmard, Baharan Mirzasoleiman, Vahab MirrokniICML 2026 · 被引用 4 次
- Adam-mini: Use Fewer Learning Rates To Gain MoreYushun Zhang, Congliang Chen, Ziniu Li, Tian Ding 等ICLR 2025
- How to Fine-Tune Vision Models with SGDAnanya Kumar, Ruoqi Shen, Sébastien Bubeck, Suriya GunasekarICLR 2024 · 被引用 37 次
